Commons:Categories for discussion/2024/09/Category:WikiProject Iran by city

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Category:WikiProject Iran by city

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Most or all of these categories were created be a single user as part of some personal pet project and are for non-exiting WikiProjects. It seems pretty clear to me that we shouldn't have categories for non-exiting subjects. Especially on this scale. As it's just misleading and makes zero sense to have a categories for WikiProjects that aren't actually real to begin with. There also isn't enough sub-categories in these to justify their existence anyway and probably a lot of the sub-categories should just be deleted.

Apparently the creator of these categories, @Orijentolog: , thinks it's totally fine to have categories for their own personal made up Wikiprojects and decided to mass revert me when I tried to deal with them. So the question here is, should we allow for single users to mass create categories for made up personal WikiProjects like Orijentolog has done here or can these categories just be deleted since their existence is clearly pointless and goes against the guidelines? Adamant1 (talk) 08:19, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, I'm a member of WikiProject Iran for many years, hundreds of thousands of my edits are related to Iranian art, architecture and other topics, and I collaborate with other users who are members. It is not my "personal pet" project. You don't participate, and today you came with an idea to remove hundreds of categories and destroy the whole category tree, just because you have some personal ideas which I find as bizarre. Second thing, to repeat it once again here, these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects, but for separating huge WikiProject Iran by particular city, although there are some particular projects like WikiProject Tehran. They serve as maintenance categories, containing 'technical' things unnecessary to see in a major category (see the linked case of Tehran). So I'm fine with it, others are also fine with it for years, and the only issue here is you. And no, these categories do not go against any guidelines. --Orijentolog (talk) 08:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is not my "personal pet" project. You seem to be the only, if not main, creator of the categories and I looked around before I nominated the categories for deletion to see if you discussed creating them anywhere. I couldn't find anything though. So it does seem like this is your "personal pet project" even if your claiming that's not what it is. Otherwise be my guest and point out where you have talked about creating these categories with other members of WikiProject Iran. I still think the categories should be deleted regardless, but I'm more willing to retract that if other members of project were involved in creating them.
these categories are not intended for existing WikiProjects, but for separating huge WikiProject Iran by particular city As I said on my talk page there shouldn't be categories called "Wikiproject X" is the X isn't an actual WikiProject IRL. Otherwise it's just nonsensical and goes against the guidelines. I understand you created them to as maintenance categories, but as I've said elsewhere multiple times now it's not really clear that's what they exist for and there's no legitimate reason you can't do it another way then mass creating categories for fake, made up projects. --Adamant1 (talk) 08:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
there shouldn't be categories called "Wikiproject X" ... goes against the guidelines That's what you say. --Orijentolog (talk) 09:09, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Generally such maintenance categories are fine as long as they are hidden categories and not categorized under regular content categories. There are problem with both rules but this is easy to solve. And the maintenance categories should show that they are sill used somehow. This seems to be the case as at least User:Orijentolog uses them. So we can keep these categories if they are all marked as hidden categories and removed from all content categories. GPSLeo (talk) 14:10, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@GPSLeo: I was thinking the same thing before opening all these, and precisely for that reason I don't treat them as regular content categories, but under the key (ω), so users can understand it's something 'irregular' i.e. technical. Categories like WikiProject Tehran are only under two parent categories, Tehran and WikiProject Iran by city, because it is logical that they should be found in the main category of the city. I found it as the best solution.
Something related: For regular categories of every city I picked up 10 major topics, arranged under alphabet letters (B - buildings, C - culture, etc.), strictly unified among all cities. Unfortunately, it is not so compact in the cities of other countries and there are differences, for example Berlin has 40 cats, Frankfurt am Main 38, Hamburg 36, and so on. Even worse, the regular and technical categories are mixed up in the order. That's the kind of mess I wanted to avoid. --Orijentolog (talk) 16:16, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I see that Adamant1 continues with his arrogant ways to rage on the categories, never willing to find shared solutions. Only his vision of things is the right one, everyone must adapt to what he has decided, without discussion. There is no dialogue, no respect for the work done by many users over decades. The result is that he is in conflict with more and more users. Perhaps it would be the case that the admins comment on this increasingly unbearable situation for many users. And to make decisions about it. DenghiùComm (talk) 14:52, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is no dialogue, no respect for the work done by many users over decades. I actually tried to discuss this with Orijentolog on their talk and there's this and several CfDs related to it that were either created by me or I'm participating in. So I have zero clue what your talking about. To do the degree that there's any conflict here or anywhere else it comes from the other person's unwillingness to discuss things in a civil, collaborative way instead of causing needless conflict and drama by just flying off the handle the second their disagreed with about anything. That was certainly the case here. Anyway, do you an opinion about this outside of personally attacking me or are you just commenting to cry bully and stir up drama? --Adamant1 (talk) 19:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not true. You were making mess with hundreds of proper categories, without any previous proposal or discussion. --Orijentolog (talk) 07:01, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please redact your personal attack, which has no place here. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:18, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It crossed my mind also, as one of solutions. The only small objection is that Persian Wikipedia actually has WikiProject Tehran, as well as WikiProjects of three provinces (not yet opened, but planned). I insist on the unification of names without exceptions, although these can also be named as WikiProject Iran in Tehran, WikiProject Iran in Fars Province, etc. --Orijentolog (talk) 16:57, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You don't get to "insist" on anything like that. Wikimedia Commons works by consensus. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not talking about insisting on a particular solution, but on the unification of the categorization. --Orijentolog (talk) 18:15, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have an issue with the categories being renamed to something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" or "Category:WikiProject Iran (Jahrom)" in theory. Although both those options still insinuate that WikiProject Iran is either in Jahrom or has something to do with it when they aren't and don't. To repeat what I said on the Village Pump, if someone creates a category called "X business in Y location" then that business should have some kind of dealings in that location. Otherwise the category is fundamentally wrong and shouldn't exist. --Adamant1 (talk) 19:47, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The simplest solution is to leave a note at the top of the existing categories. --Orijentolog (talk) 07:02, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed solution

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  1. Move all the categories to something like "Category:WikiProject Iran in Jahrom" with some scripts, which is more reasonable
  2. Add {{Hiddencat}} to all those categories
  3. Add a notice about the situation with these categories (haven't decided on specifics

Is this a reasonable compromise @Adamant1 and Orijentolog? I can do script work myself. —Matrix(!) {user - talk? - uselesscontributions} 18:26, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That all looks good, apart from "that Persian Wikipedia actually has WikiProject Tehran", so that should stay at the higher level; as should any similar cases. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:59, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah I'm fine with that for now. It's possible a lot of the categories become pointless in the future when a couple of CfDs are concluded but whatever. I have zero issue with them being renamed in the meantime. Except for the few categories that are for actually exiting WikiProjects of course. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:37, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I also have no objections. --Orijentolog (talk) 22:38, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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